luisanz@mindyrlife.com
Music & Mental Health: A Story Of Anxiety, Depression, And Hitting Rock Bottom
TRIGGER WARNING: This article discusses topics surrounding depression, anxiety, suicide, and general mental health.
Preface
Welcome to the Strengths & Struggles interview series. In this interview, Dr. Luisa Sanz has a conversation with Chris, a young man who has suffered through immense mental health struggles for years and years. This article includes key takeaways, quotations, and reflections from the interview, an audio recording of the interview, as well as the full transcript.
Before we dive in, we wanted to give you a glimpse at Chris' strengths: music. Chris is an incredibly talented musician who sings and plays multiple instruments, he also teaches music. Below you'll find a clip of Chris singing with Dr. Sanz's daughter, Monica. While Chris certainly has his struggles, as you'll read below, his strengths deserve acknowledgement and celebration.
Introduction
Dr. Luisa Sanz is an adolescent psychiatrist who is on a mission to eradicate stigma and share credible information about mental health. Dr. Sanz will be spreading awareness and starting important conversations by sharing the stories of those who are struggling with their mental health and adding key takeaways and thought-provoking questions to ask oneself. Dr Sanz is sharing these stories in hopes that people will be able to not only relate to them, but also learn from them and gain a better understanding as well as adopting an attitude of acceptance and respect.
In this interview, Dr. Luisa Sanz spoke with a young man named Chris. Chris is 32 years old, he’s from the northwest of England, he’s a musician who also works in hospitality, and he has two sisters, one older and one younger.
Dr. Sanz met Chris about eight years ago as he was teaching piano and singing to her children. Chris reflected on his journey with mental health.
Chris’s Story
“I had a very happy childhood. I don't recall any negativity at the early stages. Not until maybe age six or seven,” he said. He described the beginnings of his anxiety surrounding things like being picked out by the teacher or being the centre of attention. Nearing the end of primary school, he did extremely well on his exams. “I did exceedingly better than was expected of me. Which meant that in high school, I was put into the highest set of the school, which instantly I struggled with,” Chris reflected. He felt like there had been a mistake, like he didn’t belong in those classes, and that he was the only one who was struggling.
“This led down a spiral path of me not wanting to do my homework because I didn't understand it. And then that led to me being a bit unhappy and getting detentions and things like that which progressed to me not wanting to spend time with my friends and not going out. It just built up and built up over the five years of high school to the point where I never left the house, never left my room. I was completely isolated from everybody during high school,” he reflected.
Chris said that his friends completely gave up on him because he’d never leave the house. He was suffering in silence, unbeknownst to everyone around him.
“The thing that I probably did wrong was, I didn't tell anybody. So I pretended out with okay. My parents had no idea; absolutely no idea that I was sad or depressed or had anxiety like I did. I set this kind of image of myself, I made up this character just to do enough not to arouse suspicion for anybody,” he remembered.
“From an outside perspective, my mom always said I was just a bit of a loner, just that type of person. Not necessarily sad, just enjoyed my own company, which wasn't really the case, I was really struggling. I got very, very good at pretending.”
According to Dr. Sanz, this is actually a very common behaviour and defence mechanism. Dr. Sanz noted that Chris clearly showed signs of social anxiety and performance anxiety as demonstrated in his experiences in primary school. It appeared to be aggravated as he got older, said Dr. Sanz, which is quite common.
“The older you get, the higher the expectations, and the more difficult it is to meet those expectations,” she noted.
Chris finished high school with mediocre grades across the board except for in his music classes where he got an A. “Music was the only thing in my life that was consistent, and I was good at. But again, I was very, very shy to perform. Performing wasn't something I enjoyed doing. I entered a few competitions and things like that. And they always went well but I was always sick beforehand,” Chris shared.
Reflecting back on Chris’ schooling, Dr. Luisa Sanz identified that the relationship between optimum performance and anxiety have been a theme in Chris’ life. “For optimum performance, you've got to be a little bit anxious so you show enough interest but not too much that your brain freezes, hence jeopardizing performance,” said Dr. Sanz. But those manageable amounts of anxiety that may have contributed to his success in primary school grew to be detrimental as he got older.
“It's like a monster. The more you fear it, the bigger it gets, and it eventually just took over with anxiety completely overwhelming you to the point that you stopped believing in yourself and believing in the fact that you could do the work,” said Dr. Sanz.
Chris went to college and focused almost exclusively on music. He remembers struggling a lot with the social aspects of college. “At that point, I was really, really low.” Again, he was battling it alone. He said that no one knew because he’d go home with a smile on his face. “I'd be laughing and joking. No one knew. And I wanted it that way. I knew I didn’t want anyone to know. It would have been worse, in my opinion,” he said.
He believes the reason he was so low at this point was “because of how alone I was.” He said he didn’t have friends and that he believed he missed out on everything from playing in the streets with other kids to trying cigarettes and things with other teenagers. “I was inside all the time on my own in my room,” he said.
He chose a career path of teaching music because he felt he had to do something with the education his parents had paid for. “I never really had any ambitions,” he said. While he did build a successful teaching career for himself, the financial irregularity of money coming in from multiple schools and sources was a lot of pressure for him. He began to really over extend himself, working six or seven days a week.
A Breaking Point
“It was too much for me. And it got to the point where one day when I was on my own on a Saturday I just exploded, I destroyed my house, I broke walls and threw my computer. I just lost it. I couldn’t keep it all together anymore with all the smiling and pretending being happy all time time. It was just building and building and building,” said Chris.
He said the entire violent outburst was a blur. “I remember the police at my door, I remember ending up in the hospital where I stayed for a few days. That’s when I had to break it to my parents that I was depressed and anxious. It was a really tough time.”
Chris’ parents were distraught, particularly his mother. “She thought ‘why didn’t I know? Why didn’t I spot it?’”
At this point, Chris received a diagnosis for depression and anxiety. He was allowed to leave the hospital on the condition that someone was with him so he stayed with his parents. He felt like a failure in every sense, personal and professional.
Dr. Sanz said a feeling of having failed is extremely common in these types of circumstances.
“From my point of view, you were anything but a failure. You have tried and tried and pushed yourself beyond belief for years fighting off a tough reality in a very difficult world, That must have taken so much out of you on a daily basis,” she said.
“You say you failed your parents, you failed your students, you failed your job, and it's interesting because that is a clear symptom of depression as well: self guilt.”
Chris said that he was embarrassed because he felt that he needed to pretend to be okay and doing that had become the norm for him. He thought that maybe everybody was just pretending to be okay like he was.
Dr. Luisa noted that “this is why we're here today. If that day you had been diagnosed with diabetes, you wouldn't feel guilty or a failure, you wouldn't think, oh, gosh, I've got diabetes, and it's all my fault. If you had been diagnosed of hypertension, you wouldn't feel guilty either. The reality is that depression, social anxiety, and other mental health conditions are very well explained by biochemical imbalances in the brain. So they're just as physically based, physiologically explained, as diabetes or hypertension, yet, the way society sees it is that you're failing. That’s the common belief. But if you have diabetes, then you get all the support of everybody. You’re supported and helped through.”
Rock Bottom
After about a year spent in bed and feeling truly awful, Chris had run out of money and needed to start thinking about going back to work. He saw a job posting for a night supervisor at a hotel and thought it seemed attractive because everyone would be asleep and socializing would be limited. “It was a bad choice because I went backwards. I chose a job to continue hiding away.” It allowed him to avoid the things that made him anxious rather than confronting them.
He said this led to the same pattern again. He became more reclusive. “After a few years of working nights, I just hit rock bottom. I tried to end my life a few times,” said Chris.
He reflected on self harming in high school, as well. In all of these circumstances, no one knew. Chris said that it was the physical pain, or the fear of it, that always stopped him during his suicide attempts.
Today
While Chris says that he is “a lot better than [he] was” from a social perspective, he still isn’t getting enjoyment from life. He said that the only time he is truly happy is when he is at home playing music. But he keeps trying to turn it into a career which thrusts him back into his tumultuous optimal performance and anxiety relationship. He said that he played live gigs just before the pandemic forced lockdowns and that it was the hardest thing he’d ever done in his life.
Dr. Sanz said “what I’m hearing is that you feel hopeless that you will never be in a position where you’ve controlled anxiety to a degree where you can perform in front of people and do what you love most?” Chris agreed. Though, even if he were to be able to play music in front of people, he still feels that he would be overly anxious about paying his mortgage and making ends meet, therefore introducing another trigger for anxiety. In addition, he said that he’s terrified to try and fail.
Closing Messages
While Chris is undoubtly still struggling and feeling “stuck,” he has gained a great deal of perspective throughout his long battle with depression and anxiety.
The main thing that he’s learned is that “it’s not a bad thing to talk to someone about your worries and problems. It isn’t. It might seem like it’s a bad idea to tell people that you’re struggling, but it isn’t. That’s the main thing I take away from this, you just need to reach out. Just reach out to somebody and it might feel better.”
Dr. Luisa said “I feel in my heart, Chris, that your biggest challenge is not your anxiety, it’s you fear. What I would suggest thinking about is where your fear is coming from. Is it your own fear? Is it a fear about how this world will see you? Is it a fear of failing? Like I said, there are only two options when you try, one is to succeed and the other is to learn a lesson so you succeed at your next attempt. There’s no third option. There’s no failing when you try.”
Key Takeaways from Dr. Sanz
Dr. Sanz believes lack of self-belief and poor self esteem lies at the root of all mental health struggles. Chris will continue to feel stuck until he starts to believe in himself and starts to unfold his inner strength so he can actually achieve what he’s aiming for, she said. Self-believe is key to recovery, while it may be the most challenging piece of the puzzle, it can be positively life changing.
She believes that the limited understanding of mental health disorders and how they may present has also played a big role in Chris’ struggles. His underlying difficulty was widely missed, his presentation is seen as simply anxiety and depression. Dr. Sanz believes that Chris’ presentation may indicate that he’s on the ASC or Asperger’s syndrome. “If the presentation is not understood within the context of ASC, Chris will continue to struggle to make progress with his condition,” she noted.
There is also a big societal element to situations like Chris’. “People will be quick to make assumptions about why Chris or anyone like him doesn’t or can’t overcome their difficulties,” Dr. Sanz believes that the assumptions about people who are struggling with their mental health can be extremely damaging. In addition, the individual’s own unwillingness to accept their situation can get in the way of their progress. “What you resist, persists,” said Dr. Sanz. “What you accept, resets.” She said that there are four stages to recovery: Recognition, acceptance, exploring/learning and changing.
Finally, Dr. Sanz noted that there are three main viewpoints in stories like these. The first is the person who is struggling, their viewpoint is “I am stuck. I feel hopeless.” Next, there is the observer who may think “he doesn’t want to try” or, alternatively “I feel the same.” And finally, there is the perspective of the mental health professional, Dr. Sanz in this case, who thinks “knowledge is the key to freedom; negative believes are the lock to imprisonment.”
Interview Audio
Interview Transcript
Note: there will be errors as this is an auto-transcription.
Unknown Speaker 0:01
Hello, this is Dr. Sons, Louisa sounds Child and Adolescent psychiatrist. And we're here as part of mind your life, which is a project that has recently started to eradicate stigma, about mental health, amongst other things. And today, we're going to be sharing the experience of a young person, he'll introduce himself in a minute,
Unknown Speaker 0:32
he'll be sharing his experience with mental health difficulties, and hopefully people will be able to relate to them. And also, we'll all learn from it, to have a better attitude and attitude of understanding, acceptance and respect. So if we start with our conversation, hello, Chris, would you like to introduce yourself? Yeah. My name is Chris.
Unknown Speaker 1:04
I am 32 years old, from northwest of England. I'm a musician. And I currently also work in hospitality.
Unknown Speaker 1:16
I have two sisters, one older, one younger.
Unknown Speaker 1:20
And my parents are still together. And
Unknown Speaker 1:24
it's a good, good. I have to say I met Chris.
Unknown Speaker 1:30
About eight years ago, perhaps. And he I met him because he was the music teacher, piano and singing teacher of my children. And then we lost contact for a number of years. But we've, we've pop into each other again. And here we are today. Lovely. So Chris,
Unknown Speaker 1:51
first of all, thank you so much for agreeing to, you know, to be in to having this conversation with me and to sharing your your experience with mental health problems. would you would you like to start telling us about
Unknown Speaker 2:06
when did you start having mental health problems? And how did they How did they show? How did they start?
Unknown Speaker 2:15
I mean, as
Unknown Speaker 2:17
from what I can remember, I mean, I had a very happy childhood.
Unknown Speaker 2:23
I don't I don't recall any negativity at that early stages for maybe not to
Unknown Speaker 2:30
six or seven.
Unknown Speaker 2:32
around about that age, I think I started having a little bit of anxiety in school with being sent being having attention on me.
Unknown Speaker 2:44
So if the teacher picked me out of the class, I didn't like that I didn't like having to stand up or be center of attention.
Unknown Speaker 2:55
So that that's the the initiative from what I can figure out that that's when it probably started for me.
Unknown Speaker 3:02
I was pretty average. in primary school, I was in the middle of the class, I wasn't super bright or at the bottom.
Unknown Speaker 3:12
And I was and that by the time I got to last year, when you're doing your due tests, I was quite concerned with being in the middle and in my head and accepted that I wasn't the brightest person, but I was okay with it.
Unknown Speaker 3:28
But after I took my tests, I did exceedingly better than was expected of me.
Unknown Speaker 3:37
Which meant that high school, I was put into the highest set of the school,
Unknown Speaker 3:45
which instantly I struggled with. And that then became, in my head. I couldn't understand why I was in this class, where
Unknown Speaker 4:00
everybody else understood what was going on in the class. And I didn't, I thought the teachers couldn't have got it wrong. Ever all these adults couldn't have made a mistake and put me in the wrong place that I did the test I did what I was meant to do.
Unknown Speaker 4:16
Why am I struggling? Why am I the old one out
Unknown Speaker 4:20
so that this led down a spiral path of me not wanting to do my homework because I didn't understand it. And then that led to me being a bit unhappy and getting detention and things like that. Which
Unknown Speaker 4:33
progressed to me not wanting to spend time with my friends and not going out. It's
Unknown Speaker 4:39
just built up and built up over the five years of high school to the point where in the first go, I never left the house, never left my room. completely isolated from everybody during high school during middle school.
Unknown Speaker 4:55
So that that embedded do need this
Unknown Speaker 4:59
anxiety about
Unknown Speaker 5:00
Almost all social interactions, I couldn't go to a shop, I can walk down a shopping aisle.
Unknown Speaker 5:07
I know I didn't have any friends at that point, all my friends had given up on me because I'd never ever left the house. So you were going to school on a daily basis, but you weren't going out any more than that. Okay. And
Unknown Speaker 5:23
that
Unknown Speaker 5:25
the thing that I probably did wrong was, I didn't tell anybody. So I pretended out with okay.
Unknown Speaker 5:33
My parents didn't have no idea. Absolutely no idea that was sad or depressed or either anxiety
Unknown Speaker 5:41
I did.
Unknown Speaker 5:43
I set myself this kind of image of myself, I made this character just to
Unknown Speaker 5:50
do enough not to arouse suspicion for anybody. So I just get the the right amount of homework done that way, getting me past, you know, that being spied.
Unknown Speaker 6:01
So, it just, if I'm from an outside perspective, my mom always said, I just felt it just felt like it was a bit of a
Unknown Speaker 6:08
loner, just that type of person. Not necessarily sad, just enjoyed my own company, which wasn't really the case, I was really struggling, but
Unknown Speaker 6:20
it was, yeah. And I got very, very good at pretending.
Unknown Speaker 6:25
Which I think is a very, very common behavior, a very common defense mechanism isn't it really
Unknown Speaker 6:32
anxieties, the most common sin to my thinking many different presentations in many different disorders. And one that stopped kind of started very early in age, but it sounds like from primary school, you already had that social anxiety. Because, you know, the minute that you said you were highlighted or your where you had to stand out, you felt quite distressed, quite anxious. And that was only aggravated, which is also usually the case. The older you get, the higher the expectations,
Unknown Speaker 7:07
you know, fought fought fought for the young person, and the more difficult it is to meet those expectations. Okay, so, so you finish high school how.
Unknown Speaker 7:20
So I got, I finished I got 10 GCSEs as standard. And I got, I did exactly what I needed to do. I got CDs across the board, except to music where I got an A.
Unknown Speaker 7:35
So you get you got an A music. So obviously, music was the only thing in my life that was consistent, and I was good at.
Unknown Speaker 7:45
But again, I was very, very shy to perform. Performing wasn't something I enjoyed doing. I entered a few competitions and things like that. And and they always want.
Unknown Speaker 7:56
But I was sick beforehand. And Sharon and Jake. never enjoyed it. Yeah. It's interesting. Let me just interrupt. I'm just thinking about
Unknown Speaker 8:08
you saying that, you know, you were very anxious from from a young young age.
Unknown Speaker 8:15
But you did exceedingly well, in your primary exams prep, you know, primary school exams, you did exceedingly well, which then put you in in the highest set in high school. How can you explain apart? You know, I'm sure you've thought about too many times, and I'm just thinking about it as we're speaking. And I'm already you know, what you're trying to find an explanation. But how would you explain that if you were average, doing prime throughout primary, then you get really good grades in the exams, and then you struggle in high school? How do you have to say that it was? I mean, I probably said that, when it came to primary school, and a teacher asked the question, I often didn't know the answer. I was just scared to, in case I got it wrong. So
Unknown Speaker 9:06
it was a combination of I do probably know, I do probably know this stuff. But for fear of getting it wrong. I'm gonna stay. Yeah, I'm gonna stay where I feel comfortable. And because what I'm thinking crazy is that you can't do very well in exams. Unless you are very good. Yeah, I mean, so so. I mean, probably look up had a bit to do that as well, because I don't think I don't think my practice tests went well. I think my practice tests provider member were average is what I predicted. So I think maybe
Unknown Speaker 9:44
either a bit of luck or I just happen to know the those particular questions that were being asked. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe knows that a long time ago now. Yeah, yeah. I was just wondering crease that. I distinctly remember that.
Unknown Speaker 10:00
Teacher she still because each outside of the room one by one and gave us the results. And I must remember face going I can't believe
Unknown Speaker 10:09
how well you've done so well by one of the highest in the class. And it was she was so shocked at that. That's, that's that's definitely stuck with me that my view on that would be that you clearly have the potential and you showed it? Yes. Maybe you had 123 answers that you know, 5050. And you just got them right by chance. Yeah, fair enough. But that you did have the potential in that, that you showed it for for some reason that day, when you do, you're doing that exam, for some reason, you were in as anxious as maybe you had been before. And I'm sure you've heard about optimum performance and anxiety and the relationship, the relationship between optimum performance and level levels of arousal or anxiety. And there has to be for the optimum performance, you've got to be a little bit anxious. So you show enough interest, sure you put enough effort will not do and choose where your mind blocks completely. And I wonder crazy with you, that's been, you know, a theme in your life there because you've been anxious. And in high school as well in the lessons because you weren't very self conscious, anxious distress, you weren't able to concentrate and focus on the subject, the way you could have done, and therefore, you know, it was it's like a monster The more you fear it, the bigger it gets the monster and and eventually, he just he just took over you completely in the anxiety just overwhelmed you to the point that you stop believing in yourself and believing in the fact that you could do the work and and gave up that way. Yeah, I'm gonna do. I do know where I got some of the first classes. I think it was an English class I was in. I didn't understand the word he was saying it was beyond my. Yeah, it was genuinely beyond in capability, you know, at the time anyway, I didn't understand it.
Unknown Speaker 12:02
And it was probably that first. Probably just termed that. Yeah, that did it. Yeah. Because it was such a shock to me. Yeah. I think maybe if I'd just been in that middle class. Yeah, please. Yeah. more confident. THE MODERATOR.
Unknown Speaker 12:16
I, I definitely, distinctly remember struggling.
Unknown Speaker 12:21
And within the first week getting into water not doing the homework.
Unknown Speaker 12:25
You understand that? Yeah. So it was must have been a mixture of that. Yes. You know, probably, I probably was a bit more intelligent than I made out myself to be for the anxiety. But then that was a bit of a challenge. But it was still, I probably still deserved quiet be in that top thing. So okay, so so you get you GCSEs and then
Unknown Speaker 12:50
yeah, so
Unknown Speaker 12:52
I,
Unknown Speaker 12:54
I went to college,
Unknown Speaker 12:57
which,
Unknown Speaker 13:00
at this point, I was doing music, almost exclusively focus on the music exclusively, because it was the only thing I could really could do well, so I took music and music technology, college, as well as psychology. To start with, because I made my ambition was to go and be a teacher. I thought psychology would be useful. And then having music, you know, teach music. So that was the path. Again, I was you know,
Unknown Speaker 13:31
I struggled with that all the social aspects of it. At that point, I was really, really
Unknown Speaker 13:39
low.
Unknown Speaker 13:42
And you were 1718? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 13:46
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 13:48
You were really low. Did anybody notice? Again? No, no. Because I was, I'd go home and I'd be smiling. Yeah, I'd be laughing and joking. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 14:00
No, no, no one knew. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 14:05
And I wanted it that way. I knew I didn't want anyone to know. No, would have been worse, in my opinion. So you were very unhappy, very low, then. Do you think it was as a consequence of your struggles with social interaction? Or do you think it was beyond that? At the time, it was probably because of how alone I was. I didn't have any friends that I really apart from getting up going to college, and then going back home again, I didn't do anything. And I'd I'd also missed out on a lot of things. I never went out with kids, you know, played in the streets and stuff and I never tried cigarettes in all the things that you do as a teenager. Growing up. I never did any of them. Because I was inside all the time on my own in my room.
Unknown Speaker 14:54
So
Unknown Speaker 14:56
the just the idea of getting up and going to college. Being
Unknown Speaker 15:00
Hello people was just horrifically hard to do very excited provoking.
Unknown Speaker 15:08
But I but since the the, the idea of teaching was
Unknown Speaker 15:15
really not what a way to do, it was because I felt I had to do something with music because my parents had spent so much money, educating me on it. I thought, I've got to do something with these. And I said, No, I know I can't perform. Because I'm mathematics. I would never let me do that.
Unknown Speaker 15:33
So maybe I could teach instead. So I focused on teaching
Unknown Speaker 15:38
in college, and then afterwards as well, what do you want to do then?
Unknown Speaker 15:44
You didn't, I never really had any ambitions. No, I missed something in music. thought, yeah, I am an adult, I enjoyed writing, writing my own music. I did that from an early age about eight or nine, I probably wrote my first song.
Unknown Speaker 16:00
But again,
Unknown Speaker 16:02
my parents didn't know
Unknown Speaker 16:04
how to channel that, you know, there was no way I could have taken it at the time. And
Unknown Speaker 16:10
you know, the internet hadn't really been invented denim, there's not very much really you could do with it. So let me just mention that I, when you were teaching my children, I was very impressed with your skills, not only as a musician, but your ability to know how to teach different children in different way. Because one of my children was liked studying and you started teaching her how to read music, the other daughter couldn't concentrate at all and couldn't be bothered at learning music. And you told me Don't worry, Lisa, you know, she, she will learn in her own way. And you were very, very young that you were at the time 2324. And, and I was really impressed at your ability to appreciate children's
Unknown Speaker 17:09
ways of learning being different and maximizing their own abilities in their own way. So, so I don't know whether that says something about you as a teacher or you as a musician, and your own experience learning music. But yeah, I'd say
Unknown Speaker 17:28
I remember my music teacher in high school and, and
Unknown Speaker 17:32
I would say he didn't notice me as a musician. In New I could play the keyboard a little bit.
Unknown Speaker 17:41
But he didn't, it didn't push me to buy point wide into.
Unknown Speaker 17:46
So that very much inspired me
Unknown Speaker 17:49
to if I saw potential in people to no matter how wide went round it to be sure they were pushed to that they knew they were talented. Yeah. So.
Unknown Speaker 18:02
Okay, so So tell me then when when when do you, you know, the anxiety continues, the social anxiety continue to take to get worse and worse, you continue to get less and less confident your self esteem is dropping, and you're feeling worse and worse about yourself. Your mood is dropping, as the anxiety is increasing. You keep this mask where people around you don't really know what's really going on. And what happens how, how that.
Unknown Speaker 18:37
Yeah, so I mean, I, I finished college, I got a job as more or less as a retail assistant, just a person.
Unknown Speaker 18:49
That helped in a way because it forced that that was I had to be around people had to be wrong customers. And
Unknown Speaker 18:57
so that is that a little bit.
Unknown Speaker 19:04
But then as more worths closed, shut down event now it was made redundant. That's when I decided to go to teach it. I thought this is the prime opportunity to actually try and start a business and, and do it properly.
Unknown Speaker 19:18
So I did, and
Unknown Speaker 19:23
I was very successful, as there's no bones about it. I was teaching. By the end, I
Unknown Speaker 19:29
think it was 2006 2014. It was must have been around about that time. By that point I was
Unknown Speaker 19:38
at I was working five different schools during each day, going to different schools, teaching all evenings, and then Saturdays as well. I was working six days a week, early seven o'clock in the morning all the way till 910 o'clock at night in two to four days. I was very successful
Unknown Speaker 19:56
but
Unknown Speaker 19:57
hated
Unknown Speaker 20:01
Mainly because
Unknown Speaker 20:05
of
Unknown Speaker 20:07
probably the financial aspects because it was because it was my own self and I was self employed. I was finding the schools to go to getting pupils and you know, 111 term, I'd have 20 kids at school, the next term, tell them to drop. And that
Unknown Speaker 20:25
irregularity of money coming in was a lot of pressure for me, and I couldn't really handle that.
Unknown Speaker 20:34
And then not all that I was, I was way stretching myself out, way beyond what I should have done six days a week, or everyday, it was too much for me. And it got to the point where one day when he was a he was a Saturday
Unknown Speaker 20:48
I had just exploded, I destroyed my house, I broke walls and took from my computer went away. I just lost everything I just gave up. couldn't just couldn't keep it all together anymore. With all the other smiling and pretending I was happy and all the it was just building and building and building. And I just
Unknown Speaker 21:12
so you had like a, like a Yeah, like a violent outburst? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 21:19
You know, breaking stuff and punching walls. And, and, and then I just yeah, so I, at that point.
Unknown Speaker 21:31
It won't have sold that day was a blur. To be honest. I don't really remember much of it. I remember ending note with the police on my door. I remember ended up going to hospital.
Unknown Speaker 21:43
Where I stayed for a few days. Well, you know.
Unknown Speaker 21:47
And that's when I had to break it to my parents that I was depressed and they anxiety and it was a really tough time. I mean, you parents, what was your parents reaction? They were distraught. They were distraught.
Unknown Speaker 22:01
My mom mom was particularly, but that's quite, you know, mellow. He doesn't he doesn't show his emotions much. But a mom displaying herself. She thought Why didn't Why didn't I know? Why didn't I spot it?
Unknown Speaker 22:15
So
Unknown Speaker 22:17
yeah, I was. So what happened? And so you stayed in hospital for a few days? And did you? I assume you saw psychiatry's? They did an assessment. They would have maybe come up with a diagnosis of depression. Possibly. Yeah. Yeah, it was depression and anxiety. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 22:40
So
Unknown Speaker 22:43
I was allowed to leave hospital and condition that I've stayed with my parents. Yeah, someone was with me. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 22:49
And that I had Sorry to interrupt. How did you feel? Then? Did you feel relieved? Did you feel that you failed? Did you feel disappointed? Did you how do you remember how you felt the biggest failure
Unknown Speaker 23:06
failure in my personal life, my
Unknown Speaker 23:09
friends or anything like that, that I felt my, my job, and that I'd failed my family, all those combined. I fell in love with it. Yeah. It was horrible. And I think Chris that is a very, very common reaction and a very common way of feeling fought for people, you know, in that situation, you know, you you know, which is interesting, because, you know, from my point of view, I think, gosh, you know, from my point of view, you were anything bought a failure, because you have tried and try and push yourself beyond belief for years fighting off, you know, what was the reality, you know, very difficult world, you know, a world that you were fighting on a daily basis and in keeping that pretense, you know, must have taken so much of you on a daily basis. Really, from my point of view, you know, I would have thought that you could feel felt relieved that at least he was out in the opening and you could now do something about it and then you know, please about yourself that you've managed to take you know, to prolong it for so long but but the way you felt was a failure you failed us you know, you sell you fail you pounds, you failed your your your pupils, you felt your job, you know, and, and it's interesting because that he is it clear symptom of depression as well, you know, self guilt. And I was, I was embarrassed as well at that venue. Because, to me, it was like to me, from nine to 10 years old, this idea that I had to pretend to be okay. became the normal for me. That's what was normal. There.
Unknown Speaker 25:00
And I thought that that was my failure that I thought maybe everyone was probably like that. just pretending to be okay. And I found that that as well and increase again, this is why we're here today, you know, having this conversation because if that day you had been diagnosed of having diabetes, you wouldn't feel guilty or a failure, you wouldn't think, oh, gosh, you know, I've got diabetes, and it's all my fault. You know, if you had been diagnosed of a, you know, cardiac, you know, of hypertension, you wouldn't feel guilty. And, and, you know, the reality is that depression, social anxiety, you know, there there are very well explained by biochemical imbalances in the brain. So they're just as physically based, you know, physiologically explained as diabetes or, or hypertension, yet, the way society sees it is that, you know, if it's anxiety or depression, you're failing, you know, that that's, that's the common, you know, the common belief wrongly, or common. But if you have diabetes, then you get all the support of everybody's they know, poor lad, you know, we'll, you know, well, we'll change your diet, and you'll be fine. And, you know, if anything, you're you, you're supported and helped through.
Unknown Speaker 26:25
Yeah, I mean, from then on, obviously, I took about a year off from bed, didn't do anything for a year.
Unknown Speaker 26:35
And I ran out of money. So I had to decide, I just think about getting a new career and a new job. So
Unknown Speaker 26:42
I just had a wedding at a hotel in Preston, bester Marriott.
Unknown Speaker 26:48
And I was sat in the function room, and I thought this was a really nice place. And that night, I looked on, and I saw there's a job going for a night, night supervisor type job, and the hotel, I thought, everyone's asleep. Few, very few people go for that job. And I applied and I got it. And that's, that's my that was my new career and
Unknown Speaker 27:12
it was a bad choice in my view, because I went backwards. And when I chose it, I chose the purpose of the job that hid away.
Unknown Speaker 27:24
So, he was a job where you could continue to avoid your difficulty instead of facing it, confronting it or dealing with it managing and overcoming it, you know, you chose it was a job or job that was going to perpetuate it to maintain it in the in the hidden. Yeah. Which again, led to
Unknown Speaker 27:47
at the same pattern again, finding more reclusive more and more. And to the point, let me let me ask you, when when you were in hospital and you were diagnosed with depression, anxiety, am I correct to assume that you will prescribe medication, antidepressants with you know, anti prisoners normally have an anti retake effect as well, most of them are first one on but I've gone through quite a few of them because a lot of them are side effects for me. All right. So now I'm fluoxetine. Yeah. 60 milligrams 60 milligrams. So again, do you know
Unknown Speaker 28:24
i'm sure you do but
Unknown Speaker 28:27
the with locked in many of those type of antidepressants, lower dosages, manage the mood and higher dosages. Reach the anxiety. So if you're on 60 milligrams is because it's treating the anxiety, not just the mood. Okay. Yeah, I think the anxieties been probably underlying Yeah, yeah. It sounds like the Depression was a consequence of chronic anxiety. Yeah. Which is so very, very often the case Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 29:01
So yeah, so after a few years of working nights
Unknown Speaker 29:06
just hit rock bottom again. I tried to my life a few times, a few times. So when you try to end your life the first time
Unknown Speaker 29:17
Did anybody know about it? Not only you mentally before then.
Unknown Speaker 29:24
I did. I tried it in high school I self taught in high school and stuff like that. So right.
Unknown Speaker 29:30
Nobody knew about it in high school either. Okay, because when you sell farmed if you caught yourself
Unknown Speaker 29:36
Do you think what do you think was the purpose of that was good? Because in my experience, Grace when when I've had you know people, young people about you, they'll say, either Is there a release of distress, the you know, the physical pain release is somehow the emotional hurt. So they do it not because they want to end
Unknown Speaker 30:00
That lives or because because they want to release pain, you know, just emotional distress through physical pain. Some other people have said, Well, I was hoping that somebody would see it, and they would be able to help me that way.
Unknown Speaker 30:15
Mine wasn't either of those mine was genuinely
Unknown Speaker 30:19
hoped that it would i would bleed today really.
Unknown Speaker 30:25
Because
Unknown Speaker 30:29
it probably the pub I always have had with it. And it's probably quite common as a couldn't stand the pain. The pain was too much. So I got so deep and then I had to stop
Unknown Speaker 30:41
with the so the attempt of suicide wasn't successful, because the physical pain stopped you from it. That's interesting. So then, then I tried hanging
Unknown Speaker 30:54
again soon as it hit my neck.
Unknown Speaker 30:58
And I felt like that pain that I dragged on and stop myself.
Unknown Speaker 31:04
If I could find a painless way of doing it, I would probably probably do it even today.
Unknown Speaker 31:11
Why would you today Chris?
Unknown Speaker 31:14
I'm
Unknown Speaker 31:16
again I don't I there's very little point I see the lie face I am a lot better than I was socially. You know, I
Unknown Speaker 31:28
phlox things obviously helping me.
Unknown Speaker 31:31
But I wouldn't join it in. I don't get any enjoyment in life whatsoever anymore. What any more? Well, you haven't for the sound where you've never done know that the only thing was music. That's the only thing that ever is ever kept me going and does it not? I'm struggling with it. Why Why?
Unknown Speaker 31:54
Now, I
Unknown Speaker 31:58
still think I can't do
Unknown Speaker 32:01
enough of it.
Unknown Speaker 32:03
Physically to make it worthwhile. I can't I last bit just before locked down. I did my first ever live gig. I've never done one before.
Unknown Speaker 32:17
I did three and then locked down and up. And
Unknown Speaker 32:22
they were the three hardest things I've ever, ever done in my mind. Because I was filming in beforehand my hand but physically like this could barely, barely play the piano was I was just doing it. Yeah. And I thought
Unknown Speaker 32:38
I can't turn this into I can't turn this. Even though I enjoy music. If I'm at home and I play and sing. I'm as happy as anything. Yeah. But I tend to turn it into a career. Yeah, I can't do that. So it's like, I got nothing. I got nothing. So Chris, what what what I'm hearing correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm hearing is that you feel
Unknown Speaker 33:04
hopeless, that you will ever be in a position where you've controlled anxiety to a degree where you can perform in front of people and do what you love most, which is playing music. Yeah. So big. Because you've lost hope that that will ever be the case, then you think life isn't worth it. I might just as well kill myself. Is that? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah. So So if
Unknown Speaker 33:37
there was a way,
Unknown Speaker 33:40
you know, what, whatever that way was, whether it's through medication that hasn't worked, as well as one would wish it has worked because your your anxiety is less, but he hasn't got rid of all your anxiety to the point where you can perform in front of people but but if there was a way if you could see somehow, you know, with a magic crystal ball, that there will be a way whether it's through medication, whether it's through
Unknown Speaker 34:14
you know,
Unknown Speaker 34:16
other types of therapy, whether it's through you growing as an individual and managing your own fears. If there was a way where you could control anxiety and
Unknown Speaker 34:32
leave your life through music, that is your passion and perform, then that would change the way you think about suicide or not.
Unknown Speaker 34:46
Overall now, probably not. Now, because what am I missing them
Unknown Speaker 34:52
because even if I could
Unknown Speaker 34:59
I don't
Unknown Speaker 35:00
Know
Unknown Speaker 35:02
how many people can do that successfully as a career
Unknown Speaker 35:07
and be comfortable with with money I've got a mortgage to pay we've got a lot of bills to pay icon
Unknown Speaker 35:17
I can't take a risk but I would lose my home my comfort My only
Unknown Speaker 35:26
little piece of
Unknown Speaker 35:29
and risk it for something that might not work right okay so I sense rightly or wrongly crease that you know you are more hopeless than I thought because even when I'm when I'm suggesting a way to do what you love the most, you're still thinking Yes, but that might not pay my mortgage and and and it may or may not and you you may need a smaller mortgage or you may need an extra job or you may need
Unknown Speaker 36:05
you know, a different way of doing of doing things but
Unknown Speaker 36:11
I just I just feel Chris that you know there is there is a bigger emptiness in you that that that it isn't just about
Unknown Speaker 36:24
the anxiety and the depression is about
Unknown Speaker 36:29
almost you know as I was saying a hold less view of
Unknown Speaker 36:37
you as a as an individual in this in this world is you your your purpose and and almost almost I feel I feel crazy almost that all no you've given up on happiness
Unknown Speaker 36:53
and I'm trying to sort of twist it in a way to make you think right well if music is your passion, you know that must be your purpose therefore you know if you if you did that then you'll find happiness but something something is not quite there something else is quite missing something is what
Unknown Speaker 37:15
what worries me is if
Unknown Speaker 37:18
if I fail at music if I divide give my everything to push to other career that why would be happier and then I fail
Unknown Speaker 37:31
then I'm
Unknown Speaker 37:33
then I'm in trouble. Yeah, I can't deal with that. Yeah, I'd rather not
Unknown Speaker 37:40
tevinter done
Unknown Speaker 37:43
that's that's too much. Right well again see is that is that almost hope hope less a approach crease that I'm sensing sensing because you not even wanting to try just in case of failing. So you see in failure as such a big big
Unknown Speaker 38:04
chance such a posit such a possible reality that you're not even wanting to try it and why you seen it possibly because of your own experiences because you will have failed you know, you try and mascot mascot mascot mascot for so many years. And then it was a massive you know, outburst of violence and distress. And he You're so many years later and it's almost like you you know you feel very very well and you don't want to try just in case you fail. Because that then there wouldn't be any hope. whilst they don't try? Well, I can always say there's that option of trying but if I try and fail, then there won't be any. Were all there. I mean, if I did about three or four different senior different people trying to help me
Unknown Speaker 38:55
This is where we all reach the same point.
Unknown Speaker 38:59
I know what I need to do to fix my problem to fix my mental health.
Unknown Speaker 39:06
I can't do it.
Unknown Speaker 39:09
Because because
Unknown Speaker 39:11
there's nothing that will make me do it. You can't convince me
Unknown Speaker 39:16
that it will be okay.
Unknown Speaker 39:19
I've might it's so embedded in me that I will fail because I always seem to fail.
Unknown Speaker 39:27
I won't even try anymore
Unknown Speaker 39:30
but by not trying you failing
Unknown Speaker 39:35
because what you're telling me it let me let me challenge the only failure that I'm good. Yeah. Well, let me put it in different in different my my belief craze is that you never fail when you've tried. You only learn. You don't you don't fail when you've tried to just learn lessons you either win and achieve what you what you aim for. Or
Unknown Speaker 40:00
You've learned to lesson, a lesson that only makes you stronger and puts you in a stronger position to try again and achieve it then I can't I can't give I can't find an outcome
Unknown Speaker 40:12
where I tried music. And if I fail, I can't I can't there's no good outcome. In my in my view. I can't find one. There. There isn't one. Well, we'll have to, we'll have to continue this conversation.
Unknown Speaker 40:28
later on. But But you know what? I? That's where I am today. Yeah, you were stoked. You very stoked very strong. You're very stuck because you are still in hospitality career don't want to be in I picked it because it was wet the way it is. I can avoid a lot of people. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 40:48
So yeah, I am, I am genuinely stuck in, you are stuck. And you're stuck. which is which is
Unknown Speaker 40:56
you know, it's
Unknown Speaker 40:59
frustrating, I suppose is the word I'm looking for. It's frustrating for me. Because I know your potential. I've seen you as a musician. I've heard you singing, I've seen you play piano. I've seen you teaching my children and I see your potential in yet, you soul fearful of trying that you give up on yourself because of your own fear. And that fear that fear? I just, I just wonder where it's coming from Chris, if it's coming from, from you fate, you failing to yourself or failing to society or failing? Is it what people would think about you? Or is it you know, because we all fall down, we get open and try, you know, if you felt that you had the respect the acceptance, the admiration and the love of everybody around you? Would you be SP fall? Or would you just try and if it doesn't work, try something else. And if it doesn't work, try something else, the world is full of doors that we just have to open, you know, and if one doesn't quite open enough, then just try another one. And then just try another one. And and every time you try an open one, you learn something about that door and that that option. And but you so fearful that you're not even willing to try and open it. And that's what we need to do? Well, there's a good example that I've that I've always struggled with. And
Unknown Speaker 42:28
so I still struggle with supermarkets or shops. I will I always go to the same shop. I only walk down certain aisles. I don't interact with anyone, I don't look at anybody. I use the Self Service checkouts, I will not go down now that I don't normally go down con. And every single one of the people that have I've seen to try and help me said, Okay, let's go Monday, and we'll go down and out younger down.
Unknown Speaker 42:57
Come
Unknown Speaker 42:58
there's nothing you can do. You could nothing you can do will get me to go down and out. I don't normally go down.
Unknown Speaker 43:06
I know, I know nothing bad is going to happen. I fully know that. Will I go down and Why not? Because it's it's an it's an unknown variable that I do not wish to take. Because I don't know how.
Unknown Speaker 43:23
But you just said that no bad outcome is going to happen. Oh, yeah, I know. But it still doesn't stop reaching a very good example crease with is a very good example with the music that we're saying, you know, you may know that trying the music, you know, can't be a bad outcome. You're not willing to try it because you know, it's an Unknown, Unknown venue.
Unknown Speaker 43:47
Right? Well, we'll we'll you know, as I say, at least you know, you do, you're aware of your challenges, you're aware of where you are, and you're aware of what doesn't work, and we just need to think about what might work. When you say you've seen people you mean therapist, yeah. Okay. And I suppose that you are under the care of a psychiatrist. GP prescribes the medication. Okay. All right. Okay, so um, right, let's, let's, let's wrap up. Chris.
Unknown Speaker 44:26
What
Unknown Speaker 44:29
would you like to say to people that to it to anyone that is you know, that he is sharing this your experience today? Anyone that suffers with mental health problems or anyone, anyone that that that leaves or hasn't hasn't is in contact with, with people that suffer from mental health problems. What is there anything that you would like to, to say to you know, any message that you would like to
Unknown Speaker 44:59
I think more than one or the other
Unknown Speaker 45:00
Other things that I've learned is it
Unknown Speaker 45:04
it's not a bad thing to talk to someone about. It isn't.
Unknown Speaker 45:11
It might seem like it's a bad idea to tell people that you are struggling. But
Unknown Speaker 45:20
he ends up not being. And that's the one thing I take away from it that
Unknown Speaker 45:28
you need to just reach out. And even if it's any, anybody just reach out to somebody, and might feel better.
Unknown Speaker 45:38
But thank you for that. That's a I agree, I completely agree with that. It's a big, it's a, it's a big challenge to do very hard to do. But when you when you've done it, you've you find that actually, it is helpful. Yeah, that's what i what i hear most common. Thank you for that. My message, I think would be, you know, based on our conversation, Chris.
Unknown Speaker 46:07
One is that you are challenging creeps. You know, in your you're very,
Unknown Speaker 46:13
you know, rigid ideas about not trying. But what I would say, Chris, to you and to anyone listening or reading these, is that
Unknown Speaker 46:26
the way I see it, Chris, I'm a child psychiatrist challenge is to take characters with 25 years of experience in psychiatry, and an all my life from the age of seven, leaving with mental illness in my family. And what I can tell you that I feel in my heart today craves is that your biggest challenge is not your anxiety, is your fear.
Unknown Speaker 46:50
That is your biggest challenge. And
Unknown Speaker 46:53
what you what I would suggest that you think about is where is that fear coming from? He said, Is he your own fear? Or is it fear around the world? What the world, my my how how you think the world will see you, if you so fail, as I said before, and I repeated, I don't believe in failing, when one tries, there's only two options when you try, there's only two options. One is to win, and and achieve what you were aiming for. The other is to learn another lesson. And you know, therefore there's no, there's no, there's no third option, which is Failing that, that to me, I don't believe in it. So, so yeah, that would be that would be my message. And is there anything, Chris that I've not asked you about? Or that you would like to say before we finish anything, anything else?
Unknown Speaker 47:54
Yeah, I just finished then saying thank you so very much, Chris, for sharing this with all of us. Thank you for for me, for me, you're already my hero, because you, you know, you've you know, sharing these and in speaking so honestly and so openly about your own experiences, you know, is it easy, it's a sign of courage. And you know, and I really think that if you've got the strength to do these, you really have the strength to do anything you want. You just have to find you just have to believe it. And you're a non believer yet, so but only yet. Thank you so much for being here today and for sharing these and thank you everybody for listening to us as well.
Diagnosed of ADHD at 50: a Life Changing experience
